BEAR-ly Getting Started 6.3 - Irish Red Ale

You cannot talk about a feature of UK beers without talking about the Irish Red Ale. What is it and what gives it the bold flavor we have come to know? We spend a fair amount of time on those distinctive tasting notes. Do you like vinegar as they do in the UK? How about "Sauce Burger?" Featuring the infamous George Killian's Irish Red.

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Transcript

I've never just asked the question of what we're jumping right into, but here we've gone through the English, the English style mild or the English mild. Last episode we talked about Pub Ale and now we're going from Manchester to, is it, it's Enniscorthy, Ireland is the birthplace of... I'm just gonna nod. I'm just gonna nod and say yes. We're, yeah, we're jumping in to an Irish red. We're just talking about it off air, you know, off, before we hit record button here, about, you know, deception and, you know, for the longest it was, you know, I even thought that Killian's was from Ireland, but this is a product of the USA. It's kind of made for the U.S. market, but one of the reasons I chose to do this is because to me Killian's Irish Red, the other one, I was telling you, like Conway's Irish Ale or Irish Red from Great Lakes Brewing Company, they're kind of like what we think of in the quintessential red ales here in America. So, you know, there's definitely some other red ales. I think Salvin makes a really good red ale that, you know, is from Ireland, but to me Killian's is going to be on a lot of people's lists. If it's an Irish bar, most likely they'll have it in bottle and or draft. So it's one of those that, you know, we're talking about and I think you'll be able to easily versus there's not a ton of red ales out there. Just like the other two beers we had, English Style Bitters, the English Mild or the Dark Mild, there's not a ton. I think you'll see more red ales, a lot more amber ales, but you'll probably see this on draft lists more so than a Dark Mild, definitely. The ESB has definitely become more popular, but the red ale, the Irish Red Ale. Let's talk, like always, a little bit of the history and then we'll talk about the flavor profiles, then we'll kind of dive in. So, you know, one of the questions I'm surprised you haven't asked me is like, oh, we're doing Irish beer, why not Guinness? Like, why didn't we do Guinness? Well, one of the main reasons I did not want to do Guinness is, uh, that's a stout, right? Because that's a stout, but I mean, we're doing UK in a day. It doesn't, doesn't matter, you know, let's just say scratch the Irish Red Ale. We're talking Ireland. Yes, but yeah, yes, it is a stout, not a red ale, but when we're hopping over to Ireland, why didn't we do the most prolific beer of Ireland, Dublin's, uh, you know, uh, Guinness? Well, when we did Shout for Stouts, we did a dry Irish Stout and we talked quite about it, quite a lot about Guinness and we'll talk a little bit about Guinness and Stouts when we get into it with this, but if you want, you can go back to Shout for Stouts and look at that, uh, it was Blood Brothers, uh, Iron Eye, I think, uh, that was a dry Irish Stout. We talked quite a bit and then we also tried, uh, Over the Line by Meyers Creek. I wish I still had that hot button. That was a good hot button. And if you haven't listened to, um, Jason Sabrina's episode about Meyers Creek, I encourage you to do so. Very good episode, but we did Over the Line, which was a foreign extra stout, which is another, uh, Guinness, uh, style that you can get here in America. So I was like, well, we kind of already went over Guinness quite a bit. So what else? And there's pretty much only other one other, you know, there's more, but they're a little bit obscure, but the other big style, when you think of Irish beers is the Irish Red Ale. So that, that's kind of why I chose that. And again, I picked George Killian's just because I think that will come to mind, but the flavor profile, everything that we get is kind of what we would think of when we were thinking Red Ale. So whether it's a local brewery or another brewery in the States, you know, this, this is kind of like one of the exemplars of what the consumer would expect. Ireland, along with some areas of England, you know, we talked about England doing a lot of porters and stouts. One of the reasons that styles became so big in certain areas of the world was the terroir, which terroir could either be for beer, the water, or the ambient yeast that you can get there. And a lot more people lean towards the yeast because you can only get it in that area. It's floating around. Well, to me, the, the minerality of the water, uh, that, that is actually in the dirt, right? It's a part of the terroir. So if you're, you know, in England or you're in Dublin, Ireland, there's a lot of calcium carbonate in the water, very hard water. So very hard waters, the minerality in there help balance the acidity that is in darker malts. So it lends itself to darker beers or maltier beers, whereas calcium sulfate. So in England, you have the Burton on Trent region that has much softer water. Um, so it has, uh, you know, less hard minerals and a little bit of, uh, you know, like kind of saltiness in it as well as, uh, you know, one of the most, um, influential beers, the Pilsner from Pilsen in Czech Republic, they had extremely soft water, which allows for hops, the bitterness to not, uh, it just really accentuates the flavor in a good way versus when it's hard water. Um, it could really, um, the, the bitterness becomes a little too harsh. So you really want some, some soft water to do hoppier beers. And that's why Burton on Trent started doing things like the, the bitter style and the pale ales and the different areas did the different, um, styles. So England, darker. So that's why Guinness, originally Guinness was mainly Porter. They, well, Stout spawned from Porter. Again, you can go back and check that episode and shop for Stouts, but, you know, they were a huge Porter producer and as the popularity of Stouts came about and recipes were being redeveloped and that, you know, they really etched their name in stone when it comes to Stouts. Um, so much so that it's a dry Irish Stout and that's, you know, Guinness is quintessential for that. And then they just have a bunch of variations of their Stouts. Well, another malty, uh, beer without a ton of roast is the Irish Red Ale. And I do have a lot of people that ask, like, do you have red ales? And by a lot of people, I just mean enough where I remember that people are asking, um, not as much as like, Oh, you know, I'm looking for a hazy, juicy IPA, or do you have any of this beer from this place? I'm like, no, they don't distribute. And you have to go to the source to get that. Well, this is one where it's a very easy drinking, full-flavored beer, but it's, it's not for your hop heads. Like the people that don't really like a hoppy beer, they, uh, and they also don't want to just drink a, you know, a light crisp lager and they're not looking for, you know, a pale ale or they kind of find themselves in this, like this middle ground of like, well, what else is out there for me? And it's one of the reasons I love beer because there really is something for everyone, uh, even gluten-free got gluten dedicated breweries. Um, but these beers, some people just don't like the flavor of hops. You know, they don't want that bitterness. They don't like all of the citrus or tropical fruit notes that come from hops. They don't want a ton of Belgian yeast characteristics or a ton of yeast and phenolic and spicy notes that come from the yeast. Um, but they do like the malt, right? They do like that, uh, bread, just cereal grain type of beverage that's carbonated, that's refreshing, but then, you know, it's not going to be, you know, overkill. And that's kind of what the Irish Red Ale does for us. Provides a nice malty beer that is not hop forward whatsoever. That's not overly malty. And it, there's, you know, basically no roast. There's almost no bitterness, nothing from roast, nothing from, um, you know, hops. It's just an easy drinking malty beer. So it's a full flavored beer. That's kind of just right down the middle when it comes to, um, flavor profiles. And if we're thinking about beers and which way they lean, this obviously leans towards the malt side of things. And it allows you for a very good beverage without any, uh, palate fatigue if, if roasty and, uh, hop bitterness are not your thing. Right. Right. So have you had this before? I have. Yeah. Some St. Patrick's day somewhere. Yeah. Sometimes if I, uh, if I'm up at the Irish up in, up in Williamsville or the one down in East Aurora, I'll, uh, I'll end up, um, it's, it's usually a toss up. It's Killian's, it's Harp. It's yeah. There's a, there's a few of them that, um, I kind of bounce between. Uh, so, but Killian's comes up quite often when I just want something simple. Yeah. Depends on what I'm eating too. There you go. That's another one. Like again, all of these English ales, uh, very good with food. You know, we were talking about that with your, uh, English style bitters. The dark mild is good. You know, I would think a little slightly heartier, like your soups and stews and maybe some shepherd pies. Um, you know, kind of along the lines of what you would think of when you are thinking of like a Guinness stout, but you know, the Irish red with it being malty, I mean, if you were to, uh, sour this, uh, you know, kind of would make malt vinegar. It's kind of got the same look to it. It does. Um, but this is my cooking vinegar in here. No, there you go. Well, this is another one that brilliantly clear. I'm looking through one side. I can completely make out everything that's on the other side. When you bring it to the light, it almost blows up with a, you know, it's, it's just, it's, it's a pretty beer. It's very clear. Um, there's definitely that red undertone. You know, if we compare this to the Boddingtons, it has that copper. However, this is definitely copper with a lot of red hue behind it. Um, if you look at, again, I, you know, I think I was talking about in the one episode, the glasses that we use are these Belgian pint tulips or there's the Belgian tulip, cause these are only 10 ounces. But when you look at the thickest part, um, in the middle, you know, it's definitely red and Amber, but then when you look where it tapers towards the stem, I definitely start seeing a little bit more gold, a little bit more yellow. Again, it's a little bit of ombre where it goes from darker to lighter and slightly blonde by the bottom of it. And, you know, that's kind of also just the light refract where refraction, I think, uh, you know, it's reflecting, but also refracting. And it's kind of just really just making for a, a bright, um, crystal clean, clear, tasty looking beer. So as I take a sip. You should probably do a post sip cheers. Oh yes. And we'll do one because I don't think we did one in the last episode. Double it up. Double it up. Cheers. Cheers. Now we're covered. So when I smell this one, I get, again, malt is one of those things that's like, okay, well, what do you mean? Malt smells like malt. Well, this was one of those ones that kind of smells like if you go to a brewery on brew day and they're making beer, it smells like the grains. It smells like spent grain. It's got that, you know, cereal, like kind of like oatmeal. Cause that's, you know, really the only warm cereal that a lot of people still eat. But, you know, oats have a different smell and flavor cream of wheat, same thing. But barley, um, has like just a sweeter kind of vibe to it, you know, not so much molasses, but it's kind of in that vein of sweetness. And it just kind of has like the, the, the smell and aroma of bread, not so much toasted bread, but just fresh baked bread. Right. Like I think I said in another podcast, it's like, I know somebody was baking bread in here. Right. I know someone was brewing beer in here. Cause you just have that sweet, um, bready kind of aroma floating around. And I also like, do you get like a little touch of raisin aroma? Like just, yeah, yeah, I could get, yeah, I can get along with that. Yeah. Like a little bit of caramel. It's got, uh, you know, I think it's just, it's a little bit of those esters popping out. And I think when you have a darker malt, you know, you get a lot of raisin in the Belgian beers, like the double and your quadruple, the double and quadruple, you get, uh, those like slight raisiny notes. And I get a little bit of it here, uh, because I think it's such a malt forward beverage. And I want you to tell me what you, what you taste and what you think. Well, so taste wise, I was, I took the first sip. I thought about what you had said earlier about stews soups, because I get a bready note to this when I'm tasting it, which would definitely make me want to enjoy Irish stew with this. Yeah. Those are the kinds of noises you don't want on a microphone. Whoops. No, but, um, it's a slight malt characteristic for me. Um, it's more bready than anything for me on the tongue. The, on the backside, I mean, it's really smooth for me. It almost dissipates. It's almost, uh, it's almost jammy on the back end for me. Gotcha. Like jammy is in like the mouth feel or feel. Yeah. And then, you know, coming off of, you know, we do, uh, record all these episodes in a season together. We just had a, uh, pub ale from Boddington's that was, um, uh, you know, nitrogenated. So it just goes like, you know, doesn't this have just now it had, it seems it's an emphasized prickle on the tongue. Like, Oh man, this is pretty carbonated. Like this is almost course on the tongue compared to that one. Yep. You know, you're, you're drinking it and that's, you know, it's a good way to compare things. Like we went from something that was like silky creamy and there was no prickle on your palate or your tongue versus you drink this and you're like, Oh man, it's almost like it's attacking me. Yeah. And that's just cause we were, you know, our palates had just, you know, we just drank a half beer of something that didn't have any real carbonation in it. And now we've got it and it's dancing along our, you know, and it's nice, but it's, it's noticeable when, you know, when you're expecting it, uh, you don't notice it as much here, even though I wasn't thinking about it. I just, my, my palate was just, it was just accustomed to not as much carbonation. And then here you go. I take a couple of sips and it's just all over the tongue. I like different styles. And one of the things that, uh, when Serena and I are, are, are out doing our, you know, our taste testing everywhere, as we like to put it, um, I think we've just got to get in the habit of bringing our own supply of like, you know, palate cleansing, you know, like a snack bag of oyster crackers around, because just to be able to discern the different flavors and textures, uh, you know, uh, one of the things that you always serve, um, when you're, when people are doing tastings or they're, uh, whether just having a glass, you've always got that bowl of wavy cuts on the, uh, and it's good for the, to cleanse the palate in between a little salt characteristic flattens everything out. Yeah, that salt, you know, really does help the flavor pop, get you, get you wanting to drink a little more. But the other thing is, you know, I'm glad you brought those chips up because, um, you know, when we think about it, I talked about malt vinegar and malt goes really good with French fries. Yeah. And, you know, I've always used bread as like what malty is. And I mean, if we just at the core talk about malt, you know, grains contain starch. Those starches are heated with water as the beginning process of brewing and the most important of the brewer's job and that turns the starch in the sugar for the yeast to consume and do its magic. But that starch and that sweetness of a malty product is, is very akin to starchier vegetables, like whether it's a potato, um, you know, sweet potato being even sweeter and maltier, uh, kind of when you talk about the, the range of things, but even stuff like, uh, yucca, if you ever had like yucca fries or, um, you know, any of those starchy vegetables, you know, it, it kind of has a small characteristic. That's why, you know, it, it kind of stick stuck out to me when you're talking about the potato chips, because this actually goes pretty good with potato chips. Cause it's starchy, starchy. This has a little bit more sweetness where the saltiness of the potato chips or a French fry, um, you know, they kind of just balance each other out and that's what we're looking for. We're looking for balance in our beer and then also balance with our beverage and our food. And is it, and then the England, and I don't do it, but I know that other people do, but isn't in England, isn't it the thing to put malt vinegar on potatoes? I mean, when you get fish and chips, it's like, you know, if you're not putting that Heinz malt vinegar on it, I don't know why Heinz got so big. I'll have to look into that. But it's like, I know with a proper English breakfast, there's the Heinz baked beans. Um, and they like, I think it's Heinz 57 sauce. There's another, there's a big English sauce that they use there. It's like kind of like a Worcestershire A1. I forget the name of it. I know it's like a blue bottle with like, I think Big Ben, that clock is on it. Um, but then the other thing is the malt vinegar. And a lot of times it's just Heinz, their malt vinegar, but yeah, it's, you're putting the malt vinegar on the, on the chips and you know, it's just vinegar is one of those things that helps cut, right? It cuts through the flavor. So if you have fried foods or you have this big starchy potato, cause their chips, you know, we're looking at our potato chips, wafer thin, crispy, crunchy chips in England are like steak fries. Like if you've ever been to Red Robin, you know, it's just got, it's almost like there's a crispy outside and then like a flaky or like fluffy, I should say like mashed potato inside almost. Um, but that fluffiness with some salt and some vinegar, it just, it's, it's its own experience. I guess, I guess I have to, I don't know. I've just never put malt, malt vinegar on fries. I guess I'm gonna have to try it one time. You know, the fresh cut fries, there's some people, you know, like you get a fresh cut fry. They're definitely like a darker looking fry. Um, people like, I remember, I don't know, I had this one friend, there was these fresh cut, like a lot of times when you go to the carnivals and the fairs where you have the guy with the, you know, he's got the hand crank and he's just cranking out the curly Q fries. And they just, you know, the, the novelty of it is like, it's good. It's served you in a basket and it's just overflowing. Just got all of these. And then they just go and they just, they're, they're dousing it in salt. And then there's that vinegar. And I would just have this one friend I just remember would just douse it, douse it with the vinegar. But he was one of those guys that loved his salt and vinegar chips. And to me, I like it, but I always cough with salt and vinegar. It's just, it's a lot of flavor all at once. And I don't know if it's, I have just, uh, you know, it just attacks me when I try it, but I've had many people that they, they do like their vinegar and, you know, malt vinegar's, you know, probably the best, uh, compatible, but I mean, people that just, they need that vinegar. So I see them just grabbing white distilled vinegar and throwing it on their French fries. You know, to each their own, I guess. Yeah. If you like it, do it. You know, it hasn't hurt anybody. Go for it. And, uh, you know, I don't, I don't, I'll say you don't, don't knock it till you try it. So I've, I've had it. It's good. I prefer my ketchup, but then again, ketchup's got a lot of vinegar in it. I guess, I guess we're not that far off. I'm a little bit more of the, uh, the Belgian where I kind of like mayonnaise and fry sauces that are a little bit more aioli based. Yeah. And then that's the thing I play with a lot is I'll take, um, little smoked paprika. I'll throw that in with some mayonnaise and ketchup. And then I'll throw that together almost like a, uh, seasoned French dressing or something. I actually went to Belgium and my wife and I were getting some actual Belgian frites and we're looking at all the different sauces that are available. It's like, all right, garlic, aioli, truffle, aioli. Yup, yup, yup, yup, yup. Try a lot of that stuff. And then it was sauce burger. I was like, what's sauce burger? And I'm sitting there, I'm like, all right, it's got to have to do with like, I told him, I was like, it's gotta be like, you know, like a Big Mac sauce. And that's what it was. You know, it was basically the ketchup mayonnaise, a little bit of like, uh, onion or garlic kind of flavor in there. A little paprika. I think maybe a little pickle juice in there or maybe it was just some vinegar to, to give you that acidity. But yeah, I mean, it was good. It was just like, you're giving me ideas. Yeah. You know, I, uh, again, it's one of those people like, oh, mayonnaise with French fry. Well, mayonnaise kind of has that negative connotation around it. It's like, no, mayonnaise should be a condiment spread on bread. Well, let's call it aioli then, because you go to a lot of these upscale restaurants, a lot of places, anything you get these truffle fries or these Parmesan fries. A lot of times they're served with some sort of aioli. I'm seeing places with, you know, uh, aioli trios where it's just, you know, a luxury to the French fry. And if not, just douse it with vinegar. If you're like my son, you just, you want the ketchup. I mean, my son at first, like now he's eating his food pretty well, but it was like, you know, you're not, you're not, you're not just going to eat just the ketchup. Like, I know you like the ketchup and then it would get to, okay, well he's dipping something in it and then licking the ketchup off of it. I'm like, yeah. And you know, kudos to you for trying. What movie was that? It was, it was an Adam Sandler movie. Oh, it was big daddy. That's what it was. Yeah. He wanted 30 packets of ketchup and he was just eating it with a spoon. Well, that's, that's how my son is. He's, you know, but I think we're refining his palate. I mean, I will give him a side ramekin cause I don't like putting it on the plate cause then he, he ends up just, you know, everything gets a little ketchup on it. So I give him a ramekin, a little ketchup. We call it dip dip. Here's a little dip dip. And you know, he like now he's taking his tater tot and he is just doing a little dip dip. He's very intentional. When people ask me about my son and I think for, he just started pre-k three, they were like, give us three words about your son. And one of them was intentional cause everything he does with intention. And I don't know if it's, you know, rubbing off for me, but I love it about him. It's just part of his character. And you can just see that there's a lot going on when he does something, he's thinking pretty deep about it and to live the, to be in the brain of a three-year-old again would be, would be quite nice. Yeah. Right. The good old days. Yes. The good old days. But we're living the good old days here. You know, we're a day in the UK and we're, we're one stop away from wrapping up this series. You know, so we've, we've had the, the dark mild we've, you know, you, you really enjoyed the English Pub Al. So now we've had the Irish Red Al. Do you have one that's sticking out as, is the Pub Al still, still one of your favorites? Oh, the Pub Al has still got it for me. I mean, it's legit. And the entire six series that we've done, it's, it's going to easily be in my top five going, going forward. I really like that. It was kind of, kind of fun. You know, and I know people have asked this question before, but George, George Killian, why does he get his name on the bottle? Who is George Killian? So George, I know the answer to this one, but I think it's, it was a little to do with marketing when it came to the States. So George Killian is actually George Killian Lett, who's the great grandfather of George Henry Lett, who was the founder of Lett Brewery from this is 1864 where this was founded. So this is the original recipe from 1864. I mean, I'm sure all the products are legal, you know, in the modern day version of this. But it was, yeah, that was, so it was named after him. And then he passed away actually in December of 2010. Before, and I had this up earlier, before it was called Killian's Irish Red, it was actually called Enniscorthy Ruby Ale. So it's a mouthful. And that's, that's a, that's a lot there. So Enniscorthy being the, the, the birthplace of Lett Brewery. And then, you know, now we know that Killian's is not actually made in Ireland anymore. It's actually a product of, I think, I think Heineken makes it in France, right? I might be wrong. Yeah. I mean, George Killian's, I know the name George Killian's, it's produced in America. Okay. So then that would be under the Colorado. Yeah. So that would be under the Coors Molson umbrella. I believe so. Okay. One of the things I forgot to mention too, and it just kind of popped in my head because it is such an easy drinker. This is one of the beer styles that you can use an ale or a lager yeast strain because it is one of those lighter, easier drinkers. And yeast is not a dominant flavor profile of this. So if they use the lager, it'd be even a lager yeast strain. It would be even more strained phenolics. And there's almost no phenolics on here, meaning the spice, you know, the stuff that you typically get, the, the German Hefeweizen, where you get the clove or like the clove and all those baking spices you get from Belgian beers, but you don't really get too much of the, a lot of the flavor here is derived from the malt. A lot of that, again, you know, originally with the, the water profile. The other thing to bring up is, you know, we finally hit a beer that wouldn't be considered light, it'd be standard. This is 5.2%. So, you know, I think a lot of people would think that this is very similar to kind of just like an Amber Lager or, you know, not quite a Schwarz beer. So when we start with that Dark Mild, that was kind of like a German Schwarz beer and Irish Red is almost like an Amber Lager. Almost, almost, you know, a little less grainy than like a Sam Adams Boston Lager. If you're, you know, Sam Adams Boston Lager still has that like Pilsner cracker grain type of flavor, where this has a little bit more of that caramel, slightly sweeter kind of flavor. A little bready. Yeah, much more bread, a little less cracker. But if you are into lighter drinking beers, as in like palate and lighter on your palate, this is a good one to try out, especially if you're not into bitterness whatsoever. Yeah. I like this one. It's good and classic. Like you said, it goes with a myriad of things like stews and soups and, you know, meats definitely are going to be involved in this. So, yeah. And you can get it just about anywhere. Yep. You know, you're going to see it on draft lists. You'll see it in grocery stores. And again, it's one of those, it's just quintessential to Ireland. I mean, hence the name Irish Red Ale. You know, very few beverages or beers, you know, have the name of its birthplace in it. But it's so quintessential because once it starts to take a different form, it's called something else that this is an Irish Red Ale. So I figured we already beat Guinness up quite a bit and talked about that in other episodes. So let's go to an Irish Red and why not grab some George Killian so we can talk about the finer points and where it's actually produced and what to expect. But next time you're having your fish fry, you can make it a fish and chips, throw some malt vinegar out there and have yourself a Killian's Irish Red and see what you think. And then with that, we're going to we got one more hop to make after this. We're heading over to Scotland. And we're going to finish up the series there. But in the meantime, this is I'm Jason and he is Craig and you've been listening to Barely Getting Started. Cheers, my friend. Cheers.